Comments on: Life Expectancy: Another McStat for the Intellectually Lazy http://www.healthcarebs.com/2007/08/14/life-expectancy-another-mcstat-for-the-intellectually-lazy/ Cleaning the Augean Stables of the Health Care Debate Fri, 09 Jan 2009 00:10:27 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: Marius http://www.healthcarebs.com/2007/08/14/life-expectancy-another-mcstat-for-the-intellectually-lazy/#comment-5802 Marius Fri, 24 Aug 2007 01:35:18 +0000 http://www.healthcarebs.com/2007/08/14/life-expectancy-another-mcstat-for-the-intellectually-lazy/#comment-5802 and , BTW life expectancy is a very simple to calculate measure. one just needs to look at the death certificates. does anybody believe that the French, the Japanese or the Swedes add 3-6 years to the age their deceased just the beat the Americans? and , BTW life expectancy is a very simple to calculate measure. one just needs to look at the death certificates. does anybody believe that the French, the Japanese or the Swedes add 3-6 years to the age their deceased just the beat the Americans?

]]> By: Marius http://www.healthcarebs.com/2007/08/14/life-expectancy-another-mcstat-for-the-intellectually-lazy/#comment-5799 Marius Fri, 24 Aug 2007 01:13:20 +0000 http://www.healthcarebs.com/2007/08/14/life-expectancy-another-mcstat-for-the-intellectually-lazy/#comment-5799 one can make the argument when comparing life expectancy in US and Cuba... however myself consider it as huge slap in the face of US that Cuba does almost the same in this regard with the US. when a open sophisticated society does the same as a rigid tiranny in any regard, it means that it does something wrong. another thing that it needs to be stressed is that Cuba does a lot better in this regard than Mexico or the Dominican Republic ( that were similar in social outlook with the Cubans in the late 50's). Castro's regime has been a failure in so many aspects but they must have done something right in this regard. even if they may embelish their statistics... why the differences in life expectancy between US and France for example are not comparable? both are highly developed nations. they differ on a lot of aspects but comparing them is absolutely relevant. the French have cars, highways, average income (at PPP)at levels a little less than US and yet they live significantly longer despite spending a lot less per capita? despite the fact that they smoke and drink more. but they eat healthier, walk more, work less ( although they a little more efficient when they do so than the Americans)and lead less stressful lives. one can make the argument when comparing life expectancy in US and Cuba… however myself consider it as huge slap in the face of US that Cuba does almost the same in this regard with the US. when a open sophisticated society does the same as a rigid tiranny in any regard, it means that it does something wrong.

another thing that it needs to be stressed is that Cuba does a lot better in this regard than Mexico or the Dominican Republic ( that were similar in social outlook with the Cubans in the late 50’s). Castro’s regime has been a failure in so many aspects but they must have done something right in this regard. even if they may embelish their statistics…

why the differences in life expectancy between US and France for example are not comparable? both are highly developed nations. they differ on a lot of aspects but comparing them is absolutely relevant.

the French have cars, highways, average income (at PPP)at levels a little less than US and yet they live significantly longer despite spending a lot less per capita? despite the fact that they smoke and drink more. but they eat healthier, walk more, work less ( although they a little more efficient when they do so than the Americans)and lead less stressful lives.

]]> By: Marc Brown http://www.healthcarebs.com/2007/08/14/life-expectancy-another-mcstat-for-the-intellectually-lazy/#comment-5437 Marc Brown Wed, 15 Aug 2007 21:40:31 +0000 http://www.healthcarebs.com/2007/08/14/life-expectancy-another-mcstat-for-the-intellectually-lazy/#comment-5437 Yes, he won't put his money where his mouth is. He won't abolish state finding, and all we get is this 'deregulation' mantra. How much should the state pay in Catron country? He's about as radical as an inert gas, and unfortunately as long winded. Yes, he won’t put his money where his mouth is. He won’t abolish state finding, and all we get is this ‘deregulation’ mantra. How much should the state pay in Catron country? He’s about as radical as an inert gas, and unfortunately as long winded.

]]> By: Matt http://www.healthcarebs.com/2007/08/14/life-expectancy-another-mcstat-for-the-intellectually-lazy/#comment-5417 Matt Wed, 15 Aug 2007 03:21:25 +0000 http://www.healthcarebs.com/2007/08/14/life-expectancy-another-mcstat-for-the-intellectually-lazy/#comment-5417 Well, everytime some suggests that you won't get more free market until physicians stop making deals with the govt., "libertarians" like Catron tell us that's not an option. Their only option appears to be making the govt. pay physicians more, presumably with more debt financing. While I realize that debt financing is in vogue with Republicans these days, at some point it becomes unsustainable. Not to mention the silliness of saying we get more free market by just having the govt. pay more. Well, everytime some suggests that you won’t get more free market until physicians stop making deals with the govt., “libertarians” like Catron tell us that’s not an option. Their only option appears to be making the govt. pay physicians more, presumably with more debt financing.

While I realize that debt financing is in vogue with Republicans these days, at some point it becomes unsustainable. Not to mention the silliness of saying we get more free market by just having the govt. pay more.

]]> By: Catron http://www.healthcarebs.com/2007/08/14/life-expectancy-another-mcstat-for-the-intellectually-lazy/#comment-5415 Catron Wed, 15 Aug 2007 02:17:24 +0000 http://www.healthcarebs.com/2007/08/14/life-expectancy-another-mcstat-for-the-intellectually-lazy/#comment-5415 When I put my tinfoil hat on, I suspect that someone focus-grouped the life-expectancy-infant-mortality narrative and discovered that it resonated with the general public. When I put my tinfoil hat on, I suspect that someone focus-grouped the life-expectancy-infant-mortality narrative and discovered that it resonated with the general public.

]]> By: JoshMD http://www.healthcarebs.com/2007/08/14/life-expectancy-another-mcstat-for-the-intellectually-lazy/#comment-5414 JoshMD Wed, 15 Aug 2007 01:03:44 +0000 http://www.healthcarebs.com/2007/08/14/life-expectancy-another-mcstat-for-the-intellectually-lazy/#comment-5414 Agreed Catron. What we need is MORE free market forces in medicine. I knew this stat was crap the second I heard it, but as a busy intern I didn't have the time to look into it. Intellectually lazy? More like intellectually pre-occupied :) Its just like infant mortality stats, completely bogus! Agreed Catron. What we need is MORE free market forces in medicine.

I knew this stat was crap the second I heard it, but as a busy intern I didn’t have the time to look into it. Intellectually lazy? More like intellectually pre-occupied :)

Its just like infant mortality stats, completely bogus!

]]> By: Morris Berg http://www.healthcarebs.com/2007/08/14/life-expectancy-another-mcstat-for-the-intellectually-lazy/#comment-5406 Morris Berg Tue, 14 Aug 2007 21:42:31 +0000 http://www.healthcarebs.com/2007/08/14/life-expectancy-another-mcstat-for-the-intellectually-lazy/#comment-5406 The free-market fee-for-service ssytem that existed before Mediciad and Medicare changed their payment methodology did not work either. Our system - more "free-market than most - fails NOT because it is more centralized but because health care is not widgets. In general, NOTHING is really a free-market system . . . NOTHING. I can wax economic theory with you, but if you want to argue, "That's the problem" I'll call BS. Prove it. I'd argue that the free-market IS THE PROBLEM in the way it operates in our country (and with HC in general). Demand inelasticity will always be a problem no matter how you structure the financial incentives. I will always spend whatever it takes on a 1% option if the other option is death. This is not economically rational though it is irreducably human. Don't throw out that "We don't have a free-market. That's the problem" BS unless you want to really start with a disection of Arrow and Starr and work our way up through some hardcore intellectual analysis. The free-market fee-for-service ssytem that existed before Mediciad and Medicare changed their payment methodology did not work either.

Our system - more “free-market than most - fails NOT because it is more centralized but because health care is not widgets.

In general, NOTHING is really a free-market system . . . NOTHING. I can wax economic theory with you, but if you want to argue, “That’s the problem” I’ll call BS. Prove it.

I’d argue that the free-market IS THE PROBLEM in the way it operates in our country (and with HC in general). Demand inelasticity will always be a problem no matter how you structure the financial incentives. I will always spend whatever it takes on a 1% option if the other option is death. This is not economically rational though it is irreducably human.

Don’t throw out that “We don’t have a free-market. That’s the problem” BS unless you want to really start with a disection of Arrow and Starr and work our way up through some hardcore intellectual analysis.

]]> By: Catron http://www.healthcarebs.com/2007/08/14/life-expectancy-another-mcstat-for-the-intellectually-lazy/#comment-5404 Catron Tue, 14 Aug 2007 20:57:17 +0000 http://www.healthcarebs.com/2007/08/14/life-expectancy-another-mcstat-for-the-intellectually-lazy/#comment-5404 <em>The “free-market” does not seem to be allocating resources efficiently PERIOD.</em> Morris, we don't have a free market in health care. That's the problem. The “free-market” does not seem to be allocating resources efficiently PERIOD.

Morris, we don’t have a free market in health care. That’s the problem.

]]> By: Morris Berg http://www.healthcarebs.com/2007/08/14/life-expectancy-another-mcstat-for-the-intellectually-lazy/#comment-5403 Morris Berg Tue, 14 Aug 2007 20:52:08 +0000 http://www.healthcarebs.com/2007/08/14/life-expectancy-another-mcstat-for-the-intellectually-lazy/#comment-5403 Those of us who are wonks and/or at least statistically/logically literate AGREE WITH YOU THAT THIS STAT IN ISOLATION IS NOT THAT DAMNED IMPORTANT (however, the trend lines of this stat will always be to some degree relevant to various policy issues). Knock down this stat all you want. It doesn't change the fact that we waste a lot of money on healthcare in this country that does nothing of any actual value. The "free-market" does not seem to be allocating resources efficiently PERIOD. Those of us who are wonks and/or at least statistically/logically literate AGREE WITH YOU THAT THIS STAT IN ISOLATION IS NOT THAT DAMNED IMPORTANT (however, the trend lines of this stat will always be to some degree relevant to various policy issues).

Knock down this stat all you want.

It doesn’t change the fact that we waste a lot of money on healthcare in this country that does nothing of any actual value. The “free-market” does not seem to be allocating resources efficiently PERIOD.

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