Comments on: Stat Wars: Giuliani and the Prostate Cancer Debate http://www.healthcarebs.com/2007/11/01/stat-wars-giuliani-and-the-prostate-cancer-debate/ Cleaning the Augean Stables of the Health Care Debate Thu, 08 Jan 2009 23:43:09 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: spike http://www.healthcarebs.com/2007/11/01/stat-wars-giuliani-and-the-prostate-cancer-debate/#comment-9603 spike Fri, 02 Nov 2007 03:24:42 +0000 http://www.healthcarebs.com/2007/11/01/stat-wars-giuliani-and-the-prostate-cancer-debate/#comment-9603 You're leaving out the fact that far more Americans are diagnosed with prostate cancer than Britons, kind of important information. The only Brits that get diagnosed with prostate cancer are those with serious symptoms more likely to be fatal. We diagnose every case thanks to our aggressive screening procedures. The overall mortality rates from prostate cancer are virtually identical in the two countries. So yes, Rudy is making an irrelevant point by simply pointing out cure rates among those diagnosed with the cancer. You’re leaving out the fact that far more Americans are diagnosed with prostate cancer than Britons, kind of important information. The only Brits that get diagnosed with prostate cancer are those with serious symptoms more likely to be fatal. We diagnose every case thanks to our aggressive screening procedures. The overall mortality rates from prostate cancer are virtually identical in the two countries. So yes, Rudy is making an irrelevant point by simply pointing out cure rates among those diagnosed with the cancer.

]]> By: drmatt http://www.healthcarebs.com/2007/11/01/stat-wars-giuliani-and-the-prostate-cancer-debate/#comment-9586 drmatt Thu, 01 Nov 2007 20:03:50 +0000 http://www.healthcarebs.com/2007/11/01/stat-wars-giuliani-and-the-prostate-cancer-debate/#comment-9586 Sorry, he has an MD, but based on what i have read about him he is not a physician, he is a journalist. In an interview, Dr. Gratzer said the statistic came from the Commonwealth Fund, a nonprofit group in New York specializing in health care policy issues, but he acknowledged that it was seven years old and “crude.” But the Commonwealth Fund said yesterday that Dr. Gratzer had misused its research by calculating a five-year survival rate based on data on prostate cancer incidence and mortality rates in the United States and Britain. Anybody who contorts data to make headlines (Study stats for a while you will see that you cant "calculate" survival rates, they have to actually be measured.) is a journalist, god he admits to using crude data, don't you get it? But go ahead, take medical advice from him, good luck. Sorry, he has an MD, but based on what i have read about him he is not a physician, he is a journalist.

In an interview, Dr. Gratzer said the statistic came from the Commonwealth Fund, a nonprofit group in New York specializing in health care policy issues, but he acknowledged that it was seven years old and “crude.”

But the Commonwealth Fund said yesterday that Dr. Gratzer had misused its research by calculating a five-year survival rate based on data on prostate cancer incidence and mortality rates in the United States and Britain.

Anybody who contorts data to make headlines (Study stats for a while you will see that you cant “calculate” survival rates, they have to actually be measured.) is a journalist, god he admits to using crude data, don’t you get it? But go ahead, take medical advice from him, good luck.

]]> By: Marc Brown http://www.healthcarebs.com/2007/11/01/stat-wars-giuliani-and-the-prostate-cancer-debate/#comment-9583 Marc Brown Thu, 01 Nov 2007 19:48:50 +0000 http://www.healthcarebs.com/2007/11/01/stat-wars-giuliani-and-the-prostate-cancer-debate/#comment-9583 Giuliani's claim is nonsense, David. This is 101 stuff - many prostate cancers are very slow growing and don't kill men, so their diagnosis is not related to mortality. Five year survival rates therefore are meaningless. This is also why the hoped for effect of breast screening has turned out to be marginal. And what's more, many Americans never get counted because they don't get treated properly. If you were to count all Americans with cancer, you would undoubtedly be below the Western European average. Giuliani’s claim is nonsense, David. This is 101 stuff - many prostate cancers are very slow growing and don’t kill men, so their diagnosis is not related to mortality. Five year survival rates therefore are meaningless. This is also why the hoped for effect of breast screening has turned out to be marginal. And what’s more, many Americans never get counted because they don’t get treated properly. If you were to count all Americans with cancer, you would undoubtedly be below the Western European average.

]]> By: Catron http://www.healthcarebs.com/2007/11/01/stat-wars-giuliani-and-the-prostate-cancer-debate/#comment-9580 Catron Thu, 01 Nov 2007 19:36:19 +0000 http://www.healthcarebs.com/2007/11/01/stat-wars-giuliani-and-the-prostate-cancer-debate/#comment-9580 Gratzer is a physician. His bio can be read <a href="http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/gratzer.htm" rel="nofollow">here</a>. Gratzer is a physician. His bio can be read here.

]]> By: drmatt http://www.healthcarebs.com/2007/11/01/stat-wars-giuliani-and-the-prostate-cancer-debate/#comment-9578 drmatt Thu, 01 Nov 2007 19:18:48 +0000 http://www.healthcarebs.com/2007/11/01/stat-wars-giuliani-and-the-prostate-cancer-debate/#comment-9578 Gratzer and Crook!? You get your health care statistics from journalists! Maybe you should get your health care advice from them as well. These are people who are trained to pull out awe inspiring lines from studies, not to assess the study, construct, and value. Another example of poorly researched rhetoric to make a point. If you end up in one of those ERs that you mentioned earlier you should call the journalist and ask what to do. Gratzer and Crook!? You get your health care statistics from journalists! Maybe you should get your health care advice from them as well. These are people who are trained to pull out awe inspiring lines from studies, not to assess the study, construct, and value. Another example of poorly researched rhetoric to make a point. If you end up in one of those ERs that you mentioned earlier you should call the journalist and ask what to do.

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