Comments on: NHS TO PATIENT: MEDIOCRE CARE OR NO CARE http://www.healthcarebs.com/2007/12/17/nhs-to-patient-mediocre-care-or-no-care/ Cleaning the Augean Stables of the Health Care Debate Wed, 03 Dec 2008 08:05:28 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: Marc Brown http://www.healthcarebs.com/2007/12/17/nhs-to-patient-mediocre-care-or-no-care/#comment-12911 Marc Brown Thu, 20 Dec 2007 09:15:39 +0000 http://www.healthcarebs.com/2007/12/17/nhs-to-patient-mediocre-care-or-no-care/#comment-12911 I would hope you'd have the grace to withdraw this post now that the FDA has ruled that Avastin is not effective for breast cancer. And you have the cheek to accuse others of not doing their research! I would hope you’d have the grace to withdraw this post now that the FDA has ruled that Avastin is not effective for breast cancer. And you have the cheek to accuse others of not doing their research!

]]> By: drmatt http://www.healthcarebs.com/2007/12/17/nhs-to-patient-mediocre-care-or-no-care/#comment-12816 drmatt Wed, 19 Dec 2007 11:33:59 +0000 http://www.healthcarebs.com/2007/12/17/nhs-to-patient-mediocre-care-or-no-care/#comment-12816 Bobman, after running a primary care practice for two years and actually providing care to over 1500 patients, I was homeless and lost my car, didn't count my calories but lost about 15lbs. So you won't have to wait for single payor to see me get what I deserve, sorry for being so greedy that I wanted to provide care to people as my oath requires. Bobman,
after running a primary care practice for two years and actually providing care to over 1500 patients, I was homeless and lost my car, didn’t count my calories but lost about 15lbs. So you won’t have to wait for single payor to see me get what I deserve, sorry for being so greedy that I wanted to provide care to people as my oath requires.

]]> By: Rich http://www.healthcarebs.com/2007/12/17/nhs-to-patient-mediocre-care-or-no-care/#comment-12760 Rich Tue, 18 Dec 2007 21:48:33 +0000 http://www.healthcarebs.com/2007/12/17/nhs-to-patient-mediocre-care-or-no-care/#comment-12760 Matt: Anytime. Matt:
Anytime.

]]> By: BobMan http://www.healthcarebs.com/2007/12/17/nhs-to-patient-mediocre-care-or-no-care/#comment-12733 BobMan Tue, 18 Dec 2007 16:09:11 +0000 http://www.healthcarebs.com/2007/12/17/nhs-to-patient-mediocre-care-or-no-care/#comment-12733 To RM Kirkwood "MD", "Greed" would be eliminated via single payer, eh? "Managed Capitalism" is the high falutin' word for Socialism. Let us read the definition of "greed," from the Wiktionary: "A selfish or excessive desire for or pursuit of more than is needed or deserved, especially of money, wealth, food, or other possessions." Who (or what) decides what is "selfish or excessive?" Who (or what) decides what is "more than is needed or deserved?" Gee, I guess that would be the all-knowing and all-seeing "Single Payer!" So, if "Single Payer" thought that you, RM Kirkwood, MD, only "deserved" $1 per year for your services, then anything more would be "greedy." God, I hope to become the all-knowing, all-seeing "Single Payer." Then, the entire medical establishment would know pain, despair and suffering. Not a single one of you "deserve" more than $1 a year in compensation. Not a single one of you "need" to live anywhere but a homeless shelter. Not a single one of you "require" more than 900 calories a day of sustenance. All of you are guilty of greed for owning a car, a cell phone and a coat. I declare this to be a fact because I AM THE ALL-KNOWING, ALL-SEEING "SINGLE PAYER!" Arbitrary? Yes. Any economic system that installs a "higher authority" to run it becomes entirely arbitrary and political. And it fails. FYI, back in 1998, John Stoessel did a segment on "Greed." You can buy it here: http://www.citizenreviewonline.org/ citizen_shop/john_stossel_videos.htm To RM Kirkwood “MD”,

“Greed” would be eliminated via single payer, eh? “Managed Capitalism” is the high falutin’ word for Socialism.

Let us read the definition of “greed,” from the Wiktionary:
“A selfish or excessive desire for or pursuit of more than is needed or deserved, especially of money, wealth, food, or other possessions.”

Who (or what) decides what is “selfish or excessive?” Who (or what) decides what is “more than is needed or deserved?”

Gee, I guess that would be the all-knowing and all-seeing “Single Payer!”
So, if “Single Payer” thought that you, RM Kirkwood, MD, only “deserved” $1 per year for your services, then anything more would be “greedy.”

God, I hope to become the all-knowing, all-seeing “Single Payer.” Then, the entire medical establishment would know pain, despair and suffering. Not a single one of you “deserve” more than $1 a year in compensation. Not a single one of you “need” to live anywhere but a homeless shelter. Not a single one of you “require” more than 900 calories a day of sustenance.
All of you are guilty of greed for owning a car, a cell phone and a coat.

I declare this to be a fact because I AM THE ALL-KNOWING, ALL-SEEING “SINGLE PAYER!”

Arbitrary? Yes. Any economic system that installs a “higher authority” to run it becomes entirely arbitrary and political. And it fails.

FYI, back in 1998, John Stoessel did a segment on “Greed.” You can buy it here:

http://www.citizenreviewonline.org/
citizen_shop/john_stossel_videos.htm

]]> By: Matt Horn http://www.healthcarebs.com/2007/12/17/nhs-to-patient-mediocre-care-or-no-care/#comment-12732 Matt Horn Tue, 18 Dec 2007 15:54:06 +0000 http://www.healthcarebs.com/2007/12/17/nhs-to-patient-mediocre-care-or-no-care/#comment-12732 Rich, we have to go grab a beer sometime. Rich, we have to go grab a beer sometime.

]]> By: Catron http://www.healthcarebs.com/2007/12/17/nhs-to-patient-mediocre-care-or-no-care/#comment-12686 Catron Tue, 18 Dec 2007 04:20:49 +0000 http://www.healthcarebs.com/2007/12/17/nhs-to-patient-mediocre-care-or-no-care/#comment-12686 Thanks ... I think I'll stick with this one for a while. Thanks … I think I’ll stick with this one for a while.

]]> By: spike http://www.healthcarebs.com/2007/12/17/nhs-to-patient-mediocre-care-or-no-care/#comment-12676 spike Tue, 18 Dec 2007 02:37:59 +0000 http://www.healthcarebs.com/2007/12/17/nhs-to-patient-mediocre-care-or-no-care/#comment-12676 I ragged on your last layout, so it's only fair that I tell you I like this one a lot better. I ragged on your last layout, so it’s only fair that I tell you I like this one a lot better.

]]> By: Rich http://www.healthcarebs.com/2007/12/17/nhs-to-patient-mediocre-care-or-no-care/#comment-12671 Rich Tue, 18 Dec 2007 01:25:41 +0000 http://www.healthcarebs.com/2007/12/17/nhs-to-patient-mediocre-care-or-no-care/#comment-12671 "Sensible profit for the business is maintained" and "reasonable fees are set by the single payer" There are the money quotes. Sensible profit by whose standards? Is the phsyician with a higher debt load paid more? What about variations in rent, payroll expense, malpractice expense? No. This is price controls, which inevitably, invariably, result in infinitely expanding demand and shrinking supply, i.e. shortages. As for the payer setting reasobale fees: what If I don;t find them reasonable? I know, there is a new Plasma TV that I would like. Reasonablty I would like to pay $1 for it. It's not free. i pay something, and I, the purchaser, believe that $1 is reasonable. Now you will say that it is not a fair comparison, because I am not the single payer, but what if I wee? How could the TV outlet argue with my price? They have no one else to sell to. “Sensible profit for the business is maintained”
and
“reasonable fees are set by the single payer”

There are the money quotes.

Sensible profit by whose standards? Is the phsyician with a higher debt load paid more? What about variations in rent, payroll expense, malpractice expense?

No. This is price controls, which inevitably, invariably, result in infinitely expanding demand and shrinking supply, i.e. shortages.

As for the payer setting reasobale fees: what If I don;t find them reasonable? I know, there is a new Plasma TV that I would like. Reasonablty I would like to pay $1 for it. It’s not free. i pay something, and I, the purchaser, believe that $1 is reasonable. Now you will say that it is not a fair comparison, because I am not the single payer, but what if I wee? How could the TV outlet argue with my price? They have no one else to sell to.

]]> By: Matt Horn http://www.healthcarebs.com/2007/12/17/nhs-to-patient-mediocre-care-or-no-care/#comment-12667 Matt Horn Mon, 17 Dec 2007 23:07:07 +0000 http://www.healthcarebs.com/2007/12/17/nhs-to-patient-mediocre-care-or-no-care/#comment-12667 RE: #4 I believe you are referring to the cure for our healthcare system that Teddy Kennedy gave us and Nixon proudly signed off on. The wonderful The marvelous The HMO! BTW take out the profit from the greedy healthcare companies and you will see a whopping rate decrease. If averages from the last ten years hold, that will be about 6% as a one time discount. The only constant to rising insurance rates is a rising cost of care. RE: #4

I believe you are referring to the cure for our healthcare system that Teddy Kennedy gave us and Nixon proudly signed off on.

The wonderful

The marvelous

The HMO!

BTW take out the profit from the greedy healthcare companies and you will see a whopping rate decrease. If averages from the last ten years hold, that will be about 6% as a one time discount. The only constant to rising insurance rates is a rising cost of care.

]]> By: R. Garth Kirkwood MD http://www.healthcarebs.com/2007/12/17/nhs-to-patient-mediocre-care-or-no-care/#comment-12658 R. Garth Kirkwood MD Mon, 17 Dec 2007 20:52:11 +0000 http://www.healthcarebs.com/2007/12/17/nhs-to-patient-mediocre-care-or-no-care/#comment-12658 Response to Rich #3: Need is determined by the patient initially. Then, follow up with the doctor and/or referral for other specialty treatment is determined within the context of the doctor---patient relationship. Cost is controlled by the single payer through a system of negotiation between the single payer and the various, individual health care businesses. Sensible profit for the business is maintained, i.e., managed capitalism, but greed, unbridled capitalism, is removed. For the doctors, reasonable fees are set by the single payer. I develop these concepts in detail in my book, EQUAL HEALTH CARE FOR ALL. In the system which I describe, there may have to be some rationing for procedures such as vanity plastic surgery and the like, which can be determined by common sense to be not medically necessary. Patients would have the option of paying for these themselves. However, vital, comprehensive health care and utilization of same is determined within the context of the doctor---patient relationship and not by the payer. Of course for this to really succeed, our congress would have to mandate that the new bottom line for our health care system is penetration of the doctor---patient relationship, i.e., health care, into every community, while the financial success of the health care economic marketplace, although preserved, falls to a place of secondary importance. R. Garth Kirkwood M.D. Response to Rich #3:
Need is determined by the patient initially. Then, follow up with the doctor and/or referral for other specialty treatment is determined within the context of the doctor—patient relationship. Cost is controlled by the single payer through a system of negotiation between the single payer and the various, individual health care businesses. Sensible profit for the business is maintained, i.e., managed capitalism, but greed, unbridled capitalism, is removed. For the doctors, reasonable fees are set by the single payer.
I develop these concepts in detail in my book, EQUAL HEALTH CARE FOR ALL.
In the system which I describe, there may have to be some rationing for procedures such as vanity plastic surgery and the like, which can be determined by common sense to be not medically necessary. Patients would have the option of paying for these themselves. However, vital, comprehensive health care and utilization of same is determined within the context of the doctor—patient relationship and not by the payer.
Of course for this to really succeed, our congress would have to mandate that the new bottom line for our health care system is penetration of the doctor—patient relationship, i.e., health care, into every community, while the financial success of the health care economic marketplace, although preserved, falls to a place of secondary importance.

R. Garth Kirkwood M.D.

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