Comments on: NATALINE SARKISYAN AND SINGLE-PAYER HEALTH CARE http://www.healthcarebs.com/2008/01/11/nataline-sarkisyan-and-single-payer-health-care/ Cleaning the Augean Stables of the Health Care Debate Wed, 03 Dec 2008 08:00:03 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: Matt Horn http://www.healthcarebs.com/2008/01/11/nataline-sarkisyan-and-single-payer-health-care/#comment-17382 Matt Horn Mon, 14 Jan 2008 15:55:35 +0000 http://www.healthcarebs.com/2008/01/11/nataline-sarkisyan-and-single-payer-health-care/#comment-17382 OK Marc, I was just yanking your chain a little. From prior comments, I thought you went back and forth. drmatt, those are also good questions. I think it all really comes together to show us how skewed any statistic can be. I would also tend to agree that cultural differences make an on-balance comparison problematic. One culture may have a higher incedence of cirossis, while another may have higher incedence of exposure to Hep-C. I would like to see how they balance the data. OK Marc, I was just yanking your chain a little. From prior comments, I thought you went back and forth.

drmatt, those are also good questions. I think it all really comes together to show us how skewed any statistic can be. I would also tend to agree that cultural differences make an on-balance comparison problematic. One culture may have a higher incedence of cirossis, while another may have higher incedence of exposure to Hep-C. I would like to see how they balance the data.

]]> By: Catron http://www.healthcarebs.com/2008/01/11/nataline-sarkisyan-and-single-payer-health-care/#comment-17073 Catron Sun, 13 Jan 2008 14:20:47 +0000 http://www.healthcarebs.com/2008/01/11/nataline-sarkisyan-and-single-payer-health-care/#comment-17073 I didn't delete it (not deliberately anyway). If the info was there, it might have gone away when I was experimenting with various themes. I didn’t delete it (not deliberately anyway). If the info was there, it might have gone away when I was experimenting with various themes.

]]> By: Marc Brown http://www.healthcarebs.com/2008/01/11/nataline-sarkisyan-and-single-payer-health-care/#comment-17051 Marc Brown Sun, 13 Jan 2008 12:01:35 +0000 http://www.healthcarebs.com/2008/01/11/nataline-sarkisyan-and-single-payer-health-care/#comment-17051 I live in London, UK. David - any particular reason why you deleted my location? I live in London, UK.

David - any particular reason why you deleted my location?

]]> By: drmatt http://www.healthcarebs.com/2008/01/11/nataline-sarkisyan-and-single-payer-health-care/#comment-17040 drmatt Sun, 13 Jan 2008 11:10:52 +0000 http://www.healthcarebs.com/2008/01/11/nataline-sarkisyan-and-single-payer-health-care/#comment-17040 You have to have many questions about both comparisons. How where the numbers collected, what do they call severe. There is always a number called "lost to follow up" what do they do with those numbers? assume they died? assume they lived? how many did the us have, how many did the uk have. A huge question would be how many organs were even available, can't really criticize the uk for doing less transplants if the organs were not available? also dr gottlieb writes "on balance" there is no such statistic. "on balance" the information is flimsy at best! You have to have many questions about both comparisons. How where the numbers collected, what do they call severe. There is always a number called “lost to follow up” what do they do with those numbers? assume they died? assume they lived? how many did the us have, how many did the uk have. A huge question would be how many organs were even available, can’t really criticize the uk for doing less transplants if the organs were not available? also dr gottlieb writes “on balance” there is no such statistic. “on balance” the information is flimsy at best!

]]> By: Matt Horn http://www.healthcarebs.com/2008/01/11/nataline-sarkisyan-and-single-payer-health-care/#comment-16443 Matt Horn Fri, 11 Jan 2008 21:49:42 +0000 http://www.healthcarebs.com/2008/01/11/nataline-sarkisyan-and-single-payer-health-care/#comment-16443 Marc, you seem so miserable here. Why not just go back to the land of milk and honey where everything is so much better. You could forget all about your purgatorial sojourn with us savage yanks. Marc, you seem so miserable here. Why not just go back to the land of milk and honey where everything is so much better. You could forget all about your purgatorial sojourn with us savage yanks.

]]> By: Matt Horn http://www.healthcarebs.com/2008/01/11/nataline-sarkisyan-and-single-payer-health-care/#comment-16442 Matt Horn Fri, 11 Jan 2008 21:47:25 +0000 http://www.healthcarebs.com/2008/01/11/nataline-sarkisyan-and-single-payer-health-care/#comment-16442 drmatt, thanks for the link. Whe I read that, I thought of two different questions. 1. Are these numbers from NHS only, or the entire medical system in UK? I would be interested in seeing a breakout. 2. Is there a difference in the conditions requiring trasplants and the associated survival rate? drmatt, thanks for the link. Whe I read that, I thought of two different questions.

1. Are these numbers from NHS only, or the entire medical system in UK? I would be interested in seeing a breakout.

2. Is there a difference in the conditions requiring trasplants and the associated survival rate?

]]> By: drmatt http://www.healthcarebs.com/2008/01/11/nataline-sarkisyan-and-single-payer-health-care/#comment-16438 drmatt Fri, 11 Jan 2008 21:40:16 +0000 http://www.healthcarebs.com/2008/01/11/nataline-sarkisyan-and-single-payer-health-care/#comment-16438 Nope, any attempt to make claims about the accuracy of the data without seeing where it came from, or how it was collected and tabulated is about as guessing on how much fuel you will need in the space shuttle. My point was not to say that either system was doing a better job, it was to say that when you don't know or understand the specifics you can make the data say whatever you want, which also makes it mean exactly nothing! Nope, any attempt to make claims about the accuracy of the data without seeing where it came from, or how it was collected and tabulated is about as guessing on how much fuel you will need in the space shuttle. My point was not to say that either system was doing a better job, it was to say that when you don’t know or understand the specifics you can make the data say whatever you want, which also makes it mean exactly nothing!

]]> By: Catron http://www.healthcarebs.com/2008/01/11/nataline-sarkisyan-and-single-payer-health-care/#comment-16436 Catron Fri, 11 Jan 2008 21:25:56 +0000 http://www.healthcarebs.com/2008/01/11/nataline-sarkisyan-and-single-payer-health-care/#comment-16436 "hmmmm, look at this" Actually, Dr. Gottlieb mentions the good stat on UK patients who manage to survive the first year (few though they are). But Reuters' need to cherry pick that datum suggests that the WSJ piece is pretty accurate. “hmmmm, look at this”

Actually, Dr. Gottlieb mentions the good stat on UK patients who manage to survive the first year (few though they are). But Reuters’ need to cherry pick that datum suggests that the WSJ piece is pretty accurate.

]]> By: Marc Brown http://www.healthcarebs.com/2008/01/11/nataline-sarkisyan-and-single-payer-health-care/#comment-16434 Marc Brown Fri, 11 Jan 2008 21:20:54 +0000 http://www.healthcarebs.com/2008/01/11/nataline-sarkisyan-and-single-payer-health-care/#comment-16434 Sorry I meant guns and idiot drivers Sorry I meant guns and idiot drivers

]]> By: Marc Brown http://www.healthcarebs.com/2008/01/11/nataline-sarkisyan-and-single-payer-health-care/#comment-16431 Marc Brown Fri, 11 Jan 2008 21:20:12 +0000 http://www.healthcarebs.com/2008/01/11/nataline-sarkisyan-and-single-payer-health-care/#comment-16431 Thanks drmatt - the UK of course is one of the pioneering countries in transplants. As for the higher rates in the US, you of course have a larger pool of dead bodies to choose from thanks to all those cars and idiot drivers. M. Thanks drmatt - the UK of course is one of the pioneering countries in transplants.

As for the higher rates in the US, you of course have a larger pool of dead bodies to choose from thanks to all those cars and idiot drivers.

M.

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