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	<title>Comments on: NHS STACKING ER PATIENTS IN AMBULANCES</title>
	<link>http://www.healthcarebs.com/2008/02/22/nhs-stacking-er-patients-in-ambulances/</link>
	<description>Cleaning the Augean Stables of the Health Care Debate</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jul 2008 03:37:56 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3</generator>
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		<title>By: drmatt</title>
		<link>http://www.healthcarebs.com/2008/02/22/nhs-stacking-er-patients-in-ambulances/#comment-47604</link>
		<dc:creator>drmatt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2008 16:47:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.healthcarebs.com/2008/02/22/nhs-stacking-er-patients-in-ambulances/#comment-47604</guid>
		<description>Fun huh? too bad it is illegal for us to get together and do just what you say (all drop crappy plans). As far as docs paying attention, in my experience most docs dont really know what is going on, the "business manager" is in charge of all that. despite our disagreements you have a much better fund of knowlege regarding the nuts and bolts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fun huh? too bad it is illegal for us to get together and do just what you say (all drop crappy plans). As far as docs paying attention, in my experience most docs dont really know what is going on, the &#8220;business manager&#8221; is in charge of all that. despite our disagreements you have a much better fund of knowlege regarding the nuts and bolts.</p>
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		<title>By: Rich</title>
		<link>http://www.healthcarebs.com/2008/02/22/nhs-stacking-er-patients-in-ambulances/#comment-47500</link>
		<dc:creator>Rich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2008 14:51:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.healthcarebs.com/2008/02/22/nhs-stacking-er-patients-in-ambulances/#comment-47500</guid>
		<description>"Rich, call your third party payers and ask that the increase reimbursement and let me know how you do."

We have done this. The success rate is low, and in some instances, we could not tolerate the plan, and so dropped it. (If more docs paid attention, and dropped intolerably low reimbursing plans, they would raise their fees or disappear - THAT is the free market. The same could be said of government programs - until they are compulsory).

But some did raise their rates to keep us on panel.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Rich, call your third party payers and ask that the increase reimbursement and let me know how you do.&#8221;</p>
<p>We have done this. The success rate is low, and in some instances, we could not tolerate the plan, and so dropped it. (If more docs paid attention, and dropped intolerably low reimbursing plans, they would raise their fees or disappear - THAT is the free market. The same could be said of government programs - until they are compulsory).</p>
<p>But some did raise their rates to keep us on panel.</p>
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		<title>By: drmatt</title>
		<link>http://www.healthcarebs.com/2008/02/22/nhs-stacking-er-patients-in-ambulances/#comment-47378</link>
		<dc:creator>drmatt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2008 12:20:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.healthcarebs.com/2008/02/22/nhs-stacking-er-patients-in-ambulances/#comment-47378</guid>
		<description>Matt, no, no, not bitter, I enjoy lively discourse, a little emotion is what makes it lively. Yup, had business consultants, lawyers, bankers and accountants (truly, a group of people I was unprepared to deal with). 
Anecdotal, right, none the less you know as well as I do when you get a particular number of stories with the same input and output it is now called............that's right, a survey, I use the particular anecdotes to examplify what the survey showed. I have no doubt that your expertise may have saved my practice, so no sour grapes here. I do however resent you making comments about whether or not I was responsible in my practice decisions, unless you review the books, the community, the patient and insurance base of my practice and the reimbursement schedule, let's stick to what we know.
As far as my point, no, you missed it, infact I gave two examples farther up the string as to how a practice could succeed (simple of course but I dont have the business experience you do, though that does not make me stupid). Why don't you call the practices that you helped do so well and ask;
1 how many patients does a doc see a day?
2 what percentage of uninsured/underinsured do they have in thier patient base, does it match the community percentage?
As far as my "high horse" if you study human behavior you find that when a person becomes people then becomes numbers they are much more easily discounted, so unless you are going out into the community and suffering with the people who cant access care under your model, you are doing the same thing, I took a vow not to do that and intend to keep it. No moral judgement, that is the way it is.
Rich, call your third party payers and ask that the increase reimbursement and let me know how you do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt, no, no, not bitter, I enjoy lively discourse, a little emotion is what makes it lively. Yup, had business consultants, lawyers, bankers and accountants (truly, a group of people I was unprepared to deal with).<br />
Anecdotal, right, none the less you know as well as I do when you get a particular number of stories with the same input and output it is now called&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;that&#8217;s right, a survey, I use the particular anecdotes to examplify what the survey showed. I have no doubt that your expertise may have saved my practice, so no sour grapes here. I do however resent you making comments about whether or not I was responsible in my practice decisions, unless you review the books, the community, the patient and insurance base of my practice and the reimbursement schedule, let&#8217;s stick to what we know.<br />
As far as my point, no, you missed it, infact I gave two examples farther up the string as to how a practice could succeed (simple of course but I dont have the business experience you do, though that does not make me stupid). Why don&#8217;t you call the practices that you helped do so well and ask;<br />
1 how many patients does a doc see a day?<br />
2 what percentage of uninsured/underinsured do they have in thier patient base, does it match the community percentage?<br />
As far as my &#8220;high horse&#8221; if you study human behavior you find that when a person becomes people then becomes numbers they are much more easily discounted, so unless you are going out into the community and suffering with the people who cant access care under your model, you are doing the same thing, I took a vow not to do that and intend to keep it. No moral judgement, that is the way it is.<br />
Rich, call your third party payers and ask that the increase reimbursement and let me know how you do.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Horn</title>
		<link>http://www.healthcarebs.com/2008/02/22/nhs-stacking-er-patients-in-ambulances/#comment-46980</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Horn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2008 00:44:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.healthcarebs.com/2008/02/22/nhs-stacking-er-patients-in-ambulances/#comment-46980</guid>
		<description>drmatt, so bitter.  Other definition of anecdotal evidence:

reports or observations of usually unscientific observers - Merriam-Webster

Notice the plural.

I would agree that PCPs do have to fill their schedule, just as any other service professional.  I was under the impression that your assertion was that in order to succeed and not to be acquired a PCP had to stack their schedule.  

I would be happy to give examples of operational efficiencies in private practice.  A doctor may choose to partner up with some other physicians to consolidate administration.  I set up up an office that contained an administration base for a number of my physician clients.  We consolidated bookkeeping, payroll, HR.  I also showed three of my physician clients the benefits of combining their practices.  In that case, we saved the practice over $200K per year and it allowed them to grow by bringing on new docs.  Last time I talked with them, they had gone from 3 struggling practices to a top-tier practice with 5 partners and 4 physicians practicing under the partners.

I am not a doctor, I am a businessman with years of experience dealing with insurance, financial advising, consulting, and investment banking.  The last three almost exclusively with physicians.  While you may be able to cure the various ails of your patient, I cure the ails of business.  If you had brought someone like me into your practice before it went under, we might have been able to salvage it.

We both deal with people, so get off your high horse.  I make sure people can make a living and provide for their employees.  If you are not looking at the bottom line of your business, you have no place running a business, and have no call for sour grapes.  If you do not focus on your bottom line, you fail in your responsibility of stewardship.  There are tough decisions to be made in life, but they are decisions which must be made.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>drmatt, so bitter.  Other definition of anecdotal evidence:</p>
<p>reports or observations of usually unscientific observers - Merriam-Webster</p>
<p>Notice the plural.</p>
<p>I would agree that PCPs do have to fill their schedule, just as any other service professional.  I was under the impression that your assertion was that in order to succeed and not to be acquired a PCP had to stack their schedule.  </p>
<p>I would be happy to give examples of operational efficiencies in private practice.  A doctor may choose to partner up with some other physicians to consolidate administration.  I set up up an office that contained an administration base for a number of my physician clients.  We consolidated bookkeeping, payroll, HR.  I also showed three of my physician clients the benefits of combining their practices.  In that case, we saved the practice over $200K per year and it allowed them to grow by bringing on new docs.  Last time I talked with them, they had gone from 3 struggling practices to a top-tier practice with 5 partners and 4 physicians practicing under the partners.</p>
<p>I am not a doctor, I am a businessman with years of experience dealing with insurance, financial advising, consulting, and investment banking.  The last three almost exclusively with physicians.  While you may be able to cure the various ails of your patient, I cure the ails of business.  If you had brought someone like me into your practice before it went under, we might have been able to salvage it.</p>
<p>We both deal with people, so get off your high horse.  I make sure people can make a living and provide for their employees.  If you are not looking at the bottom line of your business, you have no place running a business, and have no call for sour grapes.  If you do not focus on your bottom line, you fail in your responsibility of stewardship.  There are tough decisions to be made in life, but they are decisions which must be made.</p>
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		<title>By: Rich</title>
		<link>http://www.healthcarebs.com/2008/02/22/nhs-stacking-er-patients-in-ambulances/#comment-46905</link>
		<dc:creator>Rich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 22:41:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.healthcarebs.com/2008/02/22/nhs-stacking-er-patients-in-ambulances/#comment-46905</guid>
		<description>I HAVE owned one (medical practice), and run more than one.

But still, abundance of anecdote is NOT evidence of anything, other than that you have an abundance of anecdotes.

Also, while we may not have the ability (not really true, negotiation DOES occur) to control what insurance companies reimburse, we do have control over what we will accept as payment. Given that control we can each decide, individually, how much "pro bono" care we can give. It is NOT anecdotal that declining reimbursements reduce the amount of charity care freely given. Just as it has been documented that lower taxation is correlated to higher charitable contributions to social welfare programs (in excess of the reduction in tax revenue). [ Cite: RALPH BRADLEY, STEVEN HOLDEN, ROBERT MCCLELLAND (2005) A ROBUST ESTIMATION OF THE EFFECTS OF TAXATION ON CHARITABLE CONTRIBUTIONS 
Contemporary Economic Policy 23 (4) , 545–554 doi:10.1093/cep/byi040 ]

To blindly take whatever you can get, be it less than your costs, or whatever, is irresponsible to yourself, your family, your employees, and your community. Every business owner in a comunity is</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I HAVE owned one (medical practice), and run more than one.</p>
<p>But still, abundance of anecdote is NOT evidence of anything, other than that you have an abundance of anecdotes.</p>
<p>Also, while we may not have the ability (not really true, negotiation DOES occur) to control what insurance companies reimburse, we do have control over what we will accept as payment. Given that control we can each decide, individually, how much &#8220;pro bono&#8221; care we can give. It is NOT anecdotal that declining reimbursements reduce the amount of charity care freely given. Just as it has been documented that lower taxation is correlated to higher charitable contributions to social welfare programs (in excess of the reduction in tax revenue). [ Cite: RALPH BRADLEY, STEVEN HOLDEN, ROBERT MCCLELLAND (2005) A ROBUST ESTIMATION OF THE EFFECTS OF TAXATION ON CHARITABLE CONTRIBUTIONS<br />
Contemporary Economic Policy 23 (4) , 545–554 doi:10.1093/cep/byi040 ]</p>
<p>To blindly take whatever you can get, be it less than your costs, or whatever, is irresponsible to yourself, your family, your employees, and your community. Every business owner in a comunity is</p>
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		<title>By: drmatt</title>
		<link>http://www.healthcarebs.com/2008/02/22/nhs-stacking-er-patients-in-ambulances/#comment-46866</link>
		<dc:creator>drmatt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 21:35:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.healthcarebs.com/2008/02/22/nhs-stacking-er-patients-in-ambulances/#comment-46866</guid>
		<description>In anycase what people like you seem to forget is we are not really talking about, "market forces and economies of scale" we are talking about people.
incidentally how is it that you "know all about the market forces in the private practice" I suppose you have owned one, run one? or just more hot air? oh i bet you read about one, ahhhhh i get it. I guess I know all about the amazon because I read about that once.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In anycase what people like you seem to forget is we are not really talking about, &#8220;market forces and economies of scale&#8221; we are talking about people.<br />
incidentally how is it that you &#8220;know all about the market forces in the private practice&#8221; I suppose you have owned one, run one? or just more hot air? oh i bet you read about one, ahhhhh i get it. I guess I know all about the amazon because I read about that once.</p>
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		<title>By: drmatt</title>
		<link>http://www.healthcarebs.com/2008/02/22/nhs-stacking-er-patients-in-ambulances/#comment-46863</link>
		<dc:creator>drmatt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 21:33:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.healthcarebs.com/2008/02/22/nhs-stacking-er-patients-in-ambulances/#comment-46863</guid>
		<description>Sorry Matt, you are wrong, anecdote by definition means "single story" as soon as you pool more than one it is no longer anecdotal and it is immediately stronger evidence than anecdote, after that strength is improved by "scientific sampling" (which is a very general assertion, there are many ways to sample that are considered "scientific')
Sorry again Matt, I did not fail in my assertion, which was in order to stay in business PCPs have to fill thier schedules, do the math, in medicine we have no control over what insurance companies reimburse, but we do have control over the number of patients we see, just as market would predict, the more money we need the more patients we see, in most hospital owned practices thier are "performance" bonuses if you see more and more patients.
Finally, unless you can describe to me what "Operational efficiencies" are exactly when it comes to the complex care of the unpredictable human patients, I think you should stick to your pie graphs and calculations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry Matt, you are wrong, anecdote by definition means &#8220;single story&#8221; as soon as you pool more than one it is no longer anecdotal and it is immediately stronger evidence than anecdote, after that strength is improved by &#8220;scientific sampling&#8221; (which is a very general assertion, there are many ways to sample that are considered &#8220;scientific&#8217;)<br />
Sorry again Matt, I did not fail in my assertion, which was in order to stay in business PCPs have to fill thier schedules, do the math, in medicine we have no control over what insurance companies reimburse, but we do have control over the number of patients we see, just as market would predict, the more money we need the more patients we see, in most hospital owned practices thier are &#8220;performance&#8221; bonuses if you see more and more patients.<br />
Finally, unless you can describe to me what &#8220;Operational efficiencies&#8221; are exactly when it comes to the complex care of the unpredictable human patients, I think you should stick to your pie graphs and calculations.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Horn</title>
		<link>http://www.healthcarebs.com/2008/02/22/nhs-stacking-er-patients-in-ambulances/#comment-46835</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Horn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 20:50:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.healthcarebs.com/2008/02/22/nhs-stacking-er-patients-in-ambulances/#comment-46835</guid>
		<description>drmatt, I know all about the market forces in the private practice community.  Buyouts happen in every business.  There is large scale consolidation of insurance and financial brokers in my area right now.  It is primarily done to create economies of scale in order to capitalize on operational efficiencies.  As long as there are docs in private practice in you area, you have failed in your assertion.

Your evidence was anecdotal unless you conducted a scientific sampling of a number of practices.  I don't know if you did or not, but from this conversation it doesn't seem likely.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>drmatt, I know all about the market forces in the private practice community.  Buyouts happen in every business.  There is large scale consolidation of insurance and financial brokers in my area right now.  It is primarily done to create economies of scale in order to capitalize on operational efficiencies.  As long as there are docs in private practice in you area, you have failed in your assertion.</p>
<p>Your evidence was anecdotal unless you conducted a scientific sampling of a number of practices.  I don&#8217;t know if you did or not, but from this conversation it doesn&#8217;t seem likely.</p>
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		<title>By: Rich</title>
		<link>http://www.healthcarebs.com/2008/02/22/nhs-stacking-er-patients-in-ambulances/#comment-46591</link>
		<dc:creator>Rich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 14:27:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.healthcarebs.com/2008/02/22/nhs-stacking-er-patients-in-ambulances/#comment-46591</guid>
		<description>You win.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You win.</p>
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		<title>By: drmatt</title>
		<link>http://www.healthcarebs.com/2008/02/22/nhs-stacking-er-patients-in-ambulances/#comment-46499</link>
		<dc:creator>drmatt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 12:26:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.healthcarebs.com/2008/02/22/nhs-stacking-er-patients-in-ambulances/#comment-46499</guid>
		<description>Matt,
Call around and find out how many "private practices" are being bought up by hospitals and large conglomerates, then ask whay, thanks for making the point, this is going on across the country.
Rich,
you also have no idea what I do or have done, consulting etc, I was only pointing out that what you offer as an arguement that primary care does not "stack" thier schedule was anecdote while I offerd more than anecdote. You dont have to see the study results, you know as well as I do that if I contacted only three other practices that would still have more power than your single anecdote.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt,<br />
Call around and find out how many &#8220;private practices&#8221; are being bought up by hospitals and large conglomerates, then ask whay, thanks for making the point, this is going on across the country.<br />
Rich,<br />
you also have no idea what I do or have done, consulting etc, I was only pointing out that what you offer as an arguement that primary care does not &#8220;stack&#8221; thier schedule was anecdote while I offerd more than anecdote. You dont have to see the study results, you know as well as I do that if I contacted only three other practices that would still have more power than your single anecdote.</p>
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