Comments on: HEALTH CARE BS AT TIME MAGAZINE http://www.healthcarebs.com/2008/12/01/health-care-bs-at-time-magazine/ Cleaning the Augean Stables of the Health Care Debate Thu, 09 Feb 2012 16:52:01 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: Paul http://www.healthcarebs.com/2008/12/01/health-care-bs-at-time-magazine/#comment-408887 Paul Sun, 07 Dec 2008 12:16:14 +0000 http://www.healthcarebs.com/2008/12/01/health-care-bs-at-time-magazine/#comment-408887 In Marc Brown's world, the speed limit on every road is fifteen miles per hour, and every girl has to get a double mastectomy. After all, "public health" trumps all else, including freedom and pleasure! In Marc Brown’s world, the speed limit on every road is fifteen miles per hour, and every girl has to get a double mastectomy. After all, “public health” trumps all else, including freedom and pleasure!

]]> By: Marc B. http://www.healthcarebs.com/2008/12/01/health-care-bs-at-time-magazine/#comment-406460 Marc B. Thu, 04 Dec 2008 22:45:28 +0000 http://www.healthcarebs.com/2008/12/01/health-care-bs-at-time-magazine/#comment-406460 It may be fun for you Matt but if it wasn't for people like Ralph Nader one of your parents may have died in an auto crash and you may not now exist. In an unintended way of course you make the point for joined up health policy – it's precisely by looking at all factors that may be causing death and injury that you arrive at the truth. If you exclude guns you might just as well exclude cigarettes, cars, solar radiation, cholesterol, obesity, alcohol and poverty. If you honestly believe that actions such as seatbelt law and anti-tobacco measures do not save lives and cost the healthcare system less then you're wrong. If you don't care whether they do or not - as I suspect you don't - then I guess the only conclusion is you're anti-society and an anarchist. It may be fun for you Matt but if it wasn’t for people like Ralph Nader one of your parents may have died in an auto crash and you may not now exist. In an unintended way of course you make the point for joined up health policy – it’s precisely by looking at all factors that may be causing death and injury that you arrive at the truth. If you exclude guns you might just as well exclude cigarettes, cars, solar radiation, cholesterol, obesity, alcohol and poverty. If you honestly believe that actions such as seatbelt law and anti-tobacco measures do not save lives and cost the healthcare system less then you’re wrong. If you don’t care whether they do or not - as I suspect you don’t - then I guess the only conclusion is you’re anti-society and an anarchist.

]]> By: Matt Horn http://www.healthcarebs.com/2008/12/01/health-care-bs-at-time-magazine/#comment-406404 Matt Horn Thu, 04 Dec 2008 21:22:35 +0000 http://www.healthcarebs.com/2008/12/01/health-care-bs-at-time-magazine/#comment-406404 By that wide swath, everything is a public health issue. Paul do you want to play a fun game? Check this out: <i>The question you should ask yourself is how many excess injuries and accidents above what you’d expect if it wasn’t for flooding the country with millions of <b>plastic buckets.</b> That’s why it’s a public health issue.</i> <i>The question you should ask yourself is how many excess homicides and injuries, suicides and accidents above what you’d expect if it wasn’t for flooding the country with millions of <b>automobiles.</b> That’s why it’s a public health issue.</i> <i>The question you should ask yourself is how many excess homicides and injuries, suicides and accidents above what you’d expect if it wasn’t for flooding the country with millions of <b>prescription pills.</b> That’s why it’s a public health issue. <i>The question you should ask yourself is how many excess homicides and injuries, suicides and accidents above what you’d expect if it wasn’t for flooding the country with millions of <b>kitchen knives.</b> That’s why it’s a public health issue.</i> Fun huh? By that wide swath, everything is a public health issue. Paul do you want to play a fun game? Check this out:

The question you should ask yourself is how many excess injuries and accidents above what you’d expect if it wasn’t for flooding the country with millions of plastic buckets. That’s why it’s a public health issue.

The question you should ask yourself is how many excess homicides and injuries, suicides and accidents above what you’d expect if it wasn’t for flooding the country with millions of automobiles. That’s why it’s a public health issue.

The question you should ask yourself is how many excess homicides and injuries, suicides and accidents above what you’d expect if it wasn’t for flooding the country with millions of prescription pills. That’s why it’s a public health issue.

The question you should ask yourself is how many excess homicides and injuries, suicides and accidents above what you’d expect if it wasn’t for flooding the country with millions of kitchen knives. That’s why it’s a public health issue.

Fun huh?

]]> By: Marc B. http://www.healthcarebs.com/2008/12/01/health-care-bs-at-time-magazine/#comment-406238 Marc B. Thu, 04 Dec 2008 17:53:36 +0000 http://www.healthcarebs.com/2008/12/01/health-care-bs-at-time-magazine/#comment-406238 'How typical of Marc (and all other Brits) to talk about gun homicides instead of simply homicides.' The question you should ask yourself is how many excess homicides and injuries, suicides and accidents above what you'd expect if it wasn't for flooding the country with millions of firearms. That's why it's a public health issue. ‘How typical of Marc (and all other Brits) to talk about gun homicides instead of simply homicides.’

The question you should ask yourself is how many excess homicides and injuries, suicides and accidents above what you’d expect if it wasn’t for flooding the country with millions of firearms. That’s why it’s a public health issue.

]]> By: Paul http://www.healthcarebs.com/2008/12/01/health-care-bs-at-time-magazine/#comment-406130 Paul Thu, 04 Dec 2008 15:53:37 +0000 http://www.healthcarebs.com/2008/12/01/health-care-bs-at-time-magazine/#comment-406130 Also, here in the U.S. we have something called justifiable homicide, something Marc wouldn't understand because self-defense is practically illegal in the United Kingdom. Also, here in the U.S. we have something called justifiable homicide, something Marc wouldn’t understand because self-defense is practically illegal in the United Kingdom.

]]> By: Paul http://www.healthcarebs.com/2008/12/01/health-care-bs-at-time-magazine/#comment-406127 Paul Thu, 04 Dec 2008 15:51:39 +0000 http://www.healthcarebs.com/2008/12/01/health-care-bs-at-time-magazine/#comment-406127 How typical of Marc (and all other Brits) to talk about gun homicides instead of simply homicides. How typical of Marc (and all other Brits) to talk about gun homicides instead of simply homicides.

]]> By: Joseph C. http://www.healthcarebs.com/2008/12/01/health-care-bs-at-time-magazine/#comment-405754 Joseph C. Thu, 04 Dec 2008 03:58:57 +0000 http://www.healthcarebs.com/2008/12/01/health-care-bs-at-time-magazine/#comment-405754 "And what about drinking - you actually have more restrictive drink-drive" Drunk driving laws protect my right not to get killed by some drunken idiot. At my old job I used to drive home right past our main bar district at about midnight. Very glad to have strict punishment for these jerks. “And what about drinking - you actually have more restrictive drink-drive”

Drunk driving laws protect my right not to get killed by some drunken idiot. At my old job I used to drive home right past our main bar district at about midnight. Very glad to have strict punishment for these jerks.

]]> By: Marc B. http://www.healthcarebs.com/2008/12/01/health-care-bs-at-time-magazine/#comment-405691 Marc B. Wed, 03 Dec 2008 21:50:14 +0000 http://www.healthcarebs.com/2008/12/01/health-care-bs-at-time-magazine/#comment-405691 Many studies show the association between guns and high homicide/suicide rates in the US. Perhaps Matt can explain exactly what's 'error prone' about putting a gun in your mouth compared with other methods, and why the UK - sad though it may be to you - is actually a lot happier because our gun homicide rate is a tiny fraction of yours. To pretend this isn't a huge public health issue is a complete fantasy. As for seatbelts, would you be happy to bear the increased insurance costs from many more people flying through windscreens? Or indeed you or your family paying the full costs when no insurer will touch you? And what about drinking - you actually have more restrictive drink-drive and younger age drinking rules than we do. And smoking - you were first with public health bans. So no lectures on 'subjugation' please. Many studies show the association between guns and high homicide/suicide rates in the US. Perhaps Matt can explain exactly what’s ‘error prone’ about putting a gun in your mouth compared with other methods, and why the UK - sad though it may be to you - is actually a lot happier because our gun homicide rate is a tiny fraction of yours. To pretend this isn’t a huge public health issue is a complete fantasy.

As for seatbelts, would you be happy to bear the increased insurance costs from many more people flying through windscreens? Or indeed you or your family paying the full costs when no insurer will touch you?

And what about drinking - you actually have more restrictive drink-drive and younger age drinking rules than we do. And smoking - you were first with public health bans. So no lectures on ’subjugation’ please.

]]> By: Brian G http://www.healthcarebs.com/2008/12/01/health-care-bs-at-time-magazine/#comment-405500 Brian G Wed, 03 Dec 2008 15:12:12 +0000 http://www.healthcarebs.com/2008/12/01/health-care-bs-at-time-magazine/#comment-405500 Marc, you are a public health problem. You support a system of healthcare that fails the very people it is intended to help. Guns don't kill people, it is the person who holds the gun and pulls the trigger. Ted Kennedy's car has killed more peolpe than my gun. Marc, you are a public health problem. You support a system of healthcare that fails the very people it is intended to help. Guns don’t kill people, it is the person who holds the gun and pulls the trigger. Ted Kennedy’s car has killed more peolpe than my gun.

]]> By: Matt Horn http://www.healthcarebs.com/2008/12/01/health-care-bs-at-time-magazine/#comment-405483 Matt Horn Wed, 03 Dec 2008 15:01:25 +0000 http://www.healthcarebs.com/2008/12/01/health-care-bs-at-time-magazine/#comment-405483 Marc, I am against both of those being a law. That being said, I have worn a seatbelt long before it was a law and never smoked in restraunts even when I was a smoker. The seatbelt issue should be an individual choice and the smoking in restraunts should be at the discretion of the business owner. It does annoy me that we are persuing policies that turn us into an insufferable nanny state like the UK. I don't view suicide as a gun problem. There are many other ways that are just as easy if not easier and less prone to error. Also, there would arguable be more homicides if law abiding citizens were not allowed to defend themselves with firearms. A friend in Oxford had his house broken into by a knife weilding man. My friend hit the guy with his cricket bat to subdue him. Guess who went to jail? Also the perp filed a lawsuit. It seems like most of my UK friend have horror stories about the nanny state on that sad little island. Another nugget that can't seem to penetrate the twisted logic of anti-gun zealots: criminals, by their very nature don't obey the law. We are not enforcing the laws on the books regarding firearms. What good will more do? Marc, I am against both of those being a law. That being said, I have worn a seatbelt long before it was a law and never smoked in restraunts even when I was a smoker. The seatbelt issue should be an individual choice and the smoking in restraunts should be at the discretion of the business owner. It does annoy me that we are persuing policies that turn us into an insufferable nanny state like the UK.

I don’t view suicide as a gun problem. There are many other ways that are just as easy if not easier and less prone to error. Also, there would arguable be more homicides if law abiding citizens were not allowed to defend themselves with firearms. A friend in Oxford had his house broken into by a knife weilding man. My friend hit the guy with his cricket bat to subdue him. Guess who went to jail? Also the perp filed a lawsuit. It seems like most of my UK friend have horror stories about the nanny state on that sad little island.

Another nugget that can’t seem to penetrate the twisted logic of anti-gun zealots: criminals, by their very nature don’t obey the law. We are not enforcing the laws on the books regarding firearms. What good will more do?

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