Comments on: HOW “PROGRESSIVES” DEBATE http://www.healthcarebs.com/2009/03/21/how-progressives-debate/ Cleaning the Augean Stables of the Health Care Debate Thu, 18 Mar 2010 18:13:18 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: Robert Smith http://www.healthcarebs.com/2009/03/21/how-progressives-debate/#comment-433498 Robert Smith Wed, 01 Apr 2009 17:13:21 +0000 http://www.healthcarebs.com/2009/03/21/how-progressives-debate/#comment-433498 It is funny the that replies posted here from PNHP do not address the name calling of Goodman and others, but point to a paper which is trying to scare you from the "well funded" and "neo-conservative" think tanks who "grow by seizing opportunities at the right time". Watch out they will get you!!! Why read the rest when the "de-bunking" paper agrees with myth number two, and admits that there are access to care issues regardless of system, and rather than show how single payer system can solve access problems, points out americans access problems. Also missing from the FAQ's on the PNHP website is "Will everyone have equal access to healthcare?" They can just quote the paper for the answer: No, "Disparities between rich and poor are typical everywhere. Disparities in access are also noted between residents in rural areas and those in urban areas again, as is typically the case elsewhere. - http://www.pnhp.org/facts/myths_memes.pdf It is funny the that replies posted here from PNHP do not address the name calling of Goodman and others, but point to a paper which is trying to scare you from the “well funded” and “neo-conservative” think tanks who “grow by seizing opportunities at the right time”. Watch out they will get you!!! Why read the rest when the “de-bunking” paper agrees with myth number two, and admits that there are access to care issues regardless of system, and rather than show how single payer system can solve access problems, points out americans access problems. Also missing from the FAQ’s on the PNHP website is “Will everyone have equal access to healthcare?” They can just quote the paper for the answer: No, “Disparities between rich and poor are typical everywhere. Disparities in access are also noted between residents in rural areas and those in urban areas again, as is typically the case elsewhere. - http://www.pnhp.org/facts/myths_memes.pdf

]]> By: Stuart Browning http://www.healthcarebs.com/2009/03/21/how-progressives-debate/#comment-433425 Stuart Browning Tue, 24 Mar 2009 15:12:27 +0000 http://www.healthcarebs.com/2009/03/21/how-progressives-debate/#comment-433425 In all of the blog entries and various writings by Mr. Holt, I've never really seen him actually debate the points with an advocate of free market health care. His modus operandi is typically an ad hominem attack ("looney right," etc.). Most amusing is that he was unable to debate the impressive David Hogberg without making school yard taunts using his last name. That this caliber of person is considered an "expert" on health care policy is indicative of the poverty of ideas in the Obama age. In all of the blog entries and various writings by Mr. Holt, I’ve never really seen him actually debate the points with an advocate of free market health care. His modus operandi is typically an ad hominem attack (”looney right,” etc.). Most amusing is that he was unable to debate the impressive David Hogberg without making school yard taunts using his last name. That this caliber of person is considered an “expert” on health care policy is indicative of the poverty of ideas in the Obama age.

]]> By: Catron http://www.healthcarebs.com/2009/03/21/how-progressives-debate/#comment-433415 Catron Mon, 23 Mar 2009 16:52:15 +0000 http://www.healthcarebs.com/2009/03/21/how-progressives-debate/#comment-433415 "we have already provided an extensive criticism" What you have "already provided," Mr. McCanne, is a series of elaborate straw men combined with variety of risible excuses for not dealing with Goodman's actual arguments and facts. “we have already provided an extensive criticism”

What you have “already provided,” Mr. McCanne, is a series of elaborate straw men combined with variety of risible excuses for not dealing with Goodman’s actual arguments and facts.

]]> By: Don McCanne http://www.healthcarebs.com/2009/03/21/how-progressives-debate/#comment-433414 Don McCanne Mon, 23 Mar 2009 03:19:20 +0000 http://www.healthcarebs.com/2009/03/21/how-progressives-debate/#comment-433414 Repeating what I posted on the Health Affairs blog to a similar criticism: (Catron) criticizes us for failing to provide evidence supporting our challenges to the paper by John Goodman and his colleagues, but a blog is an inappropriate forum for answering a 20 page paper using “as many as 100 references,” especially when some of the references need to be challenged as well. Nevertheless, we have already provided an extensive criticism of a previous paper by John Goodman and Devon Herrick that took similar liberties in reaching spurious conclusions. That paper was “Twenty Myths about Single-payer Health Insurance.” (http://www.debate-central.org/topics/2002/book2.pdf) The response, written by John Geyman, was “Myths and Memes about Single-Payer Health Insurance in the United States: A Rebuttal to Conservative Claims.” (http://www.pnhp.org/facts/myths_memes.pdf). Repeating a similar critique of Goodman’s current paper is not worth our time since we’ve already made our point. Repeating what I posted on the Health Affairs blog to a similar criticism: (Catron) criticizes us for failing to provide evidence supporting our challenges to the paper by John Goodman and his colleagues, but a blog is an inappropriate forum for answering a 20 page paper using “as many as 100 references,” especially when some of the references need to be challenged as well.

Nevertheless, we have already provided an extensive criticism of a previous paper by John Goodman and Devon Herrick that took similar liberties in reaching spurious conclusions. That paper was “Twenty Myths about Single-payer Health Insurance.” (http://www.debate-central.org/topics/2002/book2.pdf) The response, written by John Geyman, was “Myths and Memes about Single-Payer Health Insurance in the United States: A Rebuttal to Conservative Claims.” (http://www.pnhp.org/facts/myths_memes.pdf). Repeating a similar critique of Goodman’s current paper is not worth our time since we’ve already made our point.

]]> By: Catron http://www.healthcarebs.com/2009/03/21/how-progressives-debate/#comment-433413 Catron Mon, 23 Mar 2009 02:50:33 +0000 http://www.healthcarebs.com/2009/03/21/how-progressives-debate/#comment-433413 "apparently only a 20 page point by point refutation is good enough for you" That would be nice, but even ONE fact-based comment would give you at least some credibility. Thus far, however, you haven't been equal to that challenge. “apparently only a 20 page point by point refutation is good enough for you”

That would be nice, but even ONE fact-based comment would give you at least some credibility. Thus far, however, you haven’t been equal to that challenge.

]]> By: Matthew Holt http://www.healthcarebs.com/2009/03/21/how-progressives-debate/#comment-433412 Matthew Holt Mon, 23 Mar 2009 01:30:28 +0000 http://www.healthcarebs.com/2009/03/21/how-progressives-debate/#comment-433412 Hmmm...while apparently only a 20 page point by point refutation is good enough for you (and they've been written many time), you appear to have missed the question I actually asked. Oh, and by the way, I'm not an advocate of single payer, but expecting you to research the scads I've written on this is too much. But you could ask Don McCanne Hmmm…while apparently only a 20 page point by point refutation is good enough for you (and they’ve been written many time), you appear to have missed the question I actually asked.

Oh, and by the way, I’m not an advocate of single payer, but expecting you to research the scads I’ve written on this is too much. But you could ask Don McCanne

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