Comments on: ANOTHER FAUX STUDY FROM THE PNHP CREW http://www.healthcarebs.com/2009/09/18/another-faux-study-from-the-pnhp-crew/ Cleaning the Augean Stables of the Health Care Debate Fri, 30 Jul 2010 04:50:27 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: Fourier http://www.healthcarebs.com/2009/09/18/another-faux-study-from-the-pnhp-crew/#comment-448027 Fourier Thu, 24 Sep 2009 15:12:04 +0000 http://www.healthcarebs.com/2009/09/18/another-faux-study-from-the-pnhp-crew/#comment-448027 Specific problems with this class of work include 1) inability to determine whether people remained uninsured after their first interview, 2) no information on the cause of death (health care has little to do with homicide deaths a leading cause of death in the late teens and early 20s), and 3) completely inadequate statistical controls for the demographic differences between the insured and uninsured that also have an independent effect on the probability of mortality. Specific problems with this class of work include 1) inability to determine whether people remained uninsured after their first interview, 2) no information on the cause of death (health care has little to do with homicide deaths a leading cause of death in the late teens and early 20s), and 3) completely inadequate statistical controls for the demographic differences between the insured and uninsured that also have an independent effect on the probability of mortality.

]]> By: Matt Horn http://www.healthcarebs.com/2009/09/18/another-faux-study-from-the-pnhp-crew/#comment-447906 Matt Horn Mon, 21 Sep 2009 14:49:53 +0000 http://www.healthcarebs.com/2009/09/18/another-faux-study-from-the-pnhp-crew/#comment-447906 When I read the study, I noticed that even if all numbers were accurate, it seems to be correlary and not causational. Perhaps the data show that people that make bad decisions have a higher mortality rate? When I read the study, I noticed that even if all numbers were accurate, it seems to be correlary and not causational. Perhaps the data show that people that make bad decisions have a higher mortality rate?

]]> By: Marc Brown http://www.healthcarebs.com/2009/09/18/another-faux-study-from-the-pnhp-crew/#comment-447893 Marc Brown Sun, 20 Sep 2009 10:35:54 +0000 http://www.healthcarebs.com/2009/09/18/another-faux-study-from-the-pnhp-crew/#comment-447893 Sorry David - you've lost me. Please explain what the advantage of insurance is if only a tiny (one? two?) people with the wrong mindset are dying when they shouldn't. Sorry David - you’ve lost me. Please explain what the advantage of insurance is if only a tiny (one? two?) people with the wrong mindset are dying when they shouldn’t.

]]> By: Catron http://www.healthcarebs.com/2009/09/18/another-faux-study-from-the-pnhp-crew/#comment-447884 Catron Sat, 19 Sep 2009 01:05:20 +0000 http://www.healthcarebs.com/2009/09/18/another-faux-study-from-the-pnhp-crew/#comment-447884 It's not that I find it "controversial," Marc. I find the study's conclusion wholly unsupported by the objective data. Like all PNHP "studies" this one is a work of fiction. That, Daveon, is where my "objection actually is to this report." It's possible that some tiny number of people die because they think their lack of insurance precludes necessary treatment. But this "study" hasn't provided enough convincing evidence to support even that modest claim. It’s not that I find it “controversial,” Marc. I find the study’s conclusion wholly unsupported by the objective data. Like all PNHP “studies” this one is a work of fiction.

That, Daveon, is where my “objection actually is to this report.” It’s possible that some tiny number of people die because they think their lack of insurance precludes necessary treatment.

But this “study” hasn’t provided enough convincing evidence to support even that modest claim.

]]> By: Marc Brown http://www.healthcarebs.com/2009/09/18/another-faux-study-from-the-pnhp-crew/#comment-447882 Marc Brown Fri, 18 Sep 2009 21:54:36 +0000 http://www.healthcarebs.com/2009/09/18/another-faux-study-from-the-pnhp-crew/#comment-447882 David, I don't understand what you find controversial about uninsured people being more likely to die. Surely that's the whole point of insurance - to insure against the risks. Maybe you can tell me what I'm missing here as you seem to have the real science at your fingertips. David, I don’t understand what you find controversial about uninsured people being more likely to die. Surely that’s the whole point of insurance - to insure against the risks. Maybe you can tell me what I’m missing here as you seem to have the real science at your fingertips.

]]> By: Daveon http://www.healthcarebs.com/2009/09/18/another-faux-study-from-the-pnhp-crew/#comment-447881 Daveon Fri, 18 Sep 2009 18:53:55 +0000 http://www.healthcarebs.com/2009/09/18/another-faux-study-from-the-pnhp-crew/#comment-447881 Amazing. You "pointed out" that somebody else had questioned their methodology without actually refuting any of the data presented. Interestingly enough the PNHP study also starts by explaining what was wrong with the older data and why the numbers aren't correct. Anyway, that's all irrelevant, I want to actually know what your objection actually is to this report? People will die because the are uninsured, just as people will die through single payer rationing. Healthcare is a finite resource that will, for certain areas need to be rationed. The question is how is that rationing undertaken. If you believe in the private sector then you shouldn't have a problem dying because they can't afford treatment, or delay in seeking treatment. If you have no moral problem with that then really you shouldn't worry took much if the number of uninsured dying is 100 or 100,000. Amazing. You “pointed out” that somebody else had questioned their methodology without actually refuting any of the data presented.

Interestingly enough the PNHP study also starts by explaining what was wrong with the older data and why the numbers aren’t correct.

Anyway, that’s all irrelevant, I want to actually know what your objection actually is to this report?

People will die because the are uninsured, just as people will die through single payer rationing.

Healthcare is a finite resource that will, for certain areas need to be rationed. The question is how is that rationing undertaken. If you believe in the private sector then you shouldn’t have a problem dying because they can’t afford treatment, or delay in seeking treatment.

If you have no moral problem with that then really you shouldn’t worry took much if the number of uninsured dying is 100 or 100,000.

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